1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,510
*34C3 preroll music*

2
00:00:15,510 --> 00:00:19,647
Herald: Welcome everybody to our next
talk “Nabovarme open source heating

3
00:00:19,647 --> 00:00:24,328
infrastructure in Christiania”. So I would
like to know who of you has already been

4
00:00:24,328 --> 00:00:28,704
to Christiania, that little free state
in Copenhagen?

5
00:00:28,704 --> 00:00:32,744
That looks like maybe 60%
or something like that.

6
00:00:32,744 --> 00:00:37,787
Now, I have good or bad news for you,
depending on how you see it.

7
00:00:37,787 --> 00:00:42,771
If you mainly associate Christiania with
weed, there will be no mention of weed

8
00:00:42,771 --> 00:00:47,818
in this talk, whatsoever, after my
introduction, so tone down the expectations.

9
00:00:47,818 --> 00:00:52,231
But we will have a very interesting talk
about neighborhood heating,

10
00:00:52,231 --> 00:00:56,523
that’s what Nabovarme means,
I just learned it today. *laughs*

11
00:00:56,523 --> 00:01:00,007
So I would like to introduce our speakers,
but they will introduce themselves

12
00:01:00,007 --> 00:01:03,273
in a moment, too. We have
Emmerik, Johannes and Kristoffer.

13
00:01:03,273 --> 00:01:06,443
And I would like you to give them
a warm round of applause!

14
00:01:06,443 --> 00:01:12,373
*applause*

15
00:01:12,373 --> 00:01:16,378
Emmerik: Okay. Thank you very much
for coming here today and

16
00:01:16,378 --> 00:01:20,233
listening to us. I’m Emmerik.
Kristoffer: I’m Kristoffer.

17
00:01:20,233 --> 00:01:23,133
Johannes: And I’m Johannes.
Emmerik: And I will do the talking;

18
00:01:23,133 --> 00:01:27,844
I was elected to do the talking
by these good guys, and

19
00:01:27,844 --> 00:01:32,634
Kristoffer and Johannes will answer
questions afterwards and I ask you, please

20
00:01:32,634 --> 00:01:37,241
ask a lot of questions, because I think
we have a little extra spare time.

21
00:01:37,241 --> 00:01:43,011
Thank you!

22
00:01:43,011 --> 00:01:50,011
So what is Nabovarme? It’s actually

23
00:01:50,011 --> 00:01:56,236
a distributed central heating
system organization thing.

24
00:01:56,236 --> 00:02:00,954
And Nabovarme is a word

25
00:02:00,954 --> 00:02:07,124
for community heating. We have
several heating systems developed

26
00:02:07,124 --> 00:02:12,924
by the 14 local areas in Christiania.

27
00:02:12,924 --> 00:02:17,628
The basic of Christiania heating
has been pellets

28
00:02:17,628 --> 00:02:24,582
for the last 5 or 10 years. Pellets is

29
00:02:24,582 --> 00:02:29,652
these small things that you saw in the
beginning, that you had in the hands,

30
00:02:29,652 --> 00:02:35,631
let’s go back to this, see the pellets,
wooden pellets that you burn.

31
00:02:35,631 --> 00:02:41,254
We have a lot of common pellet
heating systems inside Christiania,

32
00:02:41,254 --> 00:02:46,224
those are the red dots, the large
red dots. And the small orange dots

33
00:02:46,224 --> 00:02:52,539
is local heaters in just one family.
And we have lots more

34
00:02:52,539 --> 00:02:56,558
small orange systems than you have
seen here, but we didn’t have time

35
00:02:56,558 --> 00:03:02,623
to put them in.
The history of heaters.

36
00:03:02,623 --> 00:03:08,414
We tried to find some good pictures
of the original Christiania

37
00:03:08,414 --> 00:03:14,104
oil barrel stove. But we couldn’t.
It’s difficult,

38
00:03:14,104 --> 00:03:20,090
they’re all gone. They burned through
back in the ’70s. So all we have

39
00:03:20,090 --> 00:03:25,181
are these on the left,
a very common old stove

40
00:03:25,181 --> 00:03:30,371
from the ’80s. Then we have
of course the oil heating system,

41
00:03:30,371 --> 00:03:35,845
number 2 from left, which was
common in the ’90s, and still is common

42
00:03:35,845 --> 00:03:41,875
somewhere in Christiania. Then
we have the Bekkasin oven, which is

43
00:03:41,875 --> 00:03:47,560
a popular oven in Denmark
for wood, for logs, and

44
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:53,162
you see to the right a typical
Christiania installation, which is

45
00:03:53,162 --> 00:03:59,332
just a tube going through the side
of the building, and,

46
00:03:59,332 --> 00:04:04,916
you know, burning pellets inside and
smoke outside. Not very modern,

47
00:04:04,916 --> 00:04:13,620
not very efficient, and coming to its end.

48
00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:19,899
What we have done is we have
taken some very old meters

49
00:04:19,899 --> 00:04:26,071
when we installed… those meters,
when we installed some surveillance

50
00:04:26,071 --> 00:04:31,486
and monitoring on the pellet systems
that we have.

51
00:04:31,486 --> 00:04:36,137
Now we’re in the phase of combining
the users that had these oil heaters,

52
00:04:36,137 --> 00:04:42,476
the wood stoves, the small pellet heaters
into larger systems that perform better.

53
00:04:42,476 --> 00:04:47,206
And the central role for improvement is
logging the heat usage, and finding ways

54
00:04:47,206 --> 00:04:54,216
of making everyone pay the necessary
amount and pay it in time.

55
00:04:54,216 --> 00:05:00,854
The logging system consists
of these Multical 602,

56
00:05:00,854 --> 00:05:06,744
that was first. They were very old

57
00:05:06,744 --> 00:05:12,359
when we found them second hand, and
then we have improved them with the

58
00:05:12,359 --> 00:05:18,287
switch-mode power supply to the right,
in the right picture, and

59
00:05:18,287 --> 00:05:24,717
with a WiFi gadget in connection,
so making it into a smart meter.

60
00:05:24,717 --> 00:05:31,026
The billing and the heating on/off is
done through our custom made database.

61
00:05:31,026 --> 00:05:37,783
So remote logging makes maintenance much
easier and can over time improve the efficiency

62
00:05:37,783 --> 00:05:43,503
of the heating system. That can help the
users being more interested in taking part

63
00:05:43,503 --> 00:05:49,858
of the heating consumption problems
which is one of our time’s main

64
00:05:49,858 --> 00:05:57,758
global warming issues, you know.

65
00:05:57,758 --> 00:06:03,688
Well, our Nabovarme organizations
are organized into the communities.

66
00:06:03,688 --> 00:06:08,974
And in our most modern system every
user is using our newly developed

67
00:06:08,974 --> 00:06:14,734
prepaid consumption. You know,
before people would go down and buy

68
00:06:14,734 --> 00:06:20,594
some logs of wood. And then would go home
and burn them. When the burning ended

69
00:06:20,594 --> 00:06:26,379
they were cold. They felt the cool and
they went back, buy more logs, and

70
00:06:26,379 --> 00:06:32,488
heating it, again. So first you buy, then
you have the heat. The same model goes

71
00:06:32,488 --> 00:06:38,811
into our prepaid consumption: first you
pay for the heat and then you consumpt.

72
00:06:38,811 --> 00:06:45,658
And then when your use is over the valve
turns off. That is a very simple model

73
00:06:45,658 --> 00:06:52,178
and it means that there is no deficit
nowhere. That means organizing

74
00:06:52,178 --> 00:06:56,548
the receiving money in advance for heat
and inserting the equivalent amount

75
00:06:56,548 --> 00:07:02,718
of energy into the system database. When
the user has consumed what he’s paid for

76
00:07:02,718 --> 00:07:11,132
the module automatically turns off
the valve to the user.

77
00:07:11,132 --> 00:07:17,728
The thing is that Christiania was founded
as on top of an old military base

78
00:07:17,728 --> 00:07:23,478
which is actually coming back to 1680s,

79
00:07:23,478 --> 00:07:29,079
when the city of Copenhagen was defending
itself against the Swedes, the German

80
00:07:29,079 --> 00:07:36,081
and the English. That data base
was left in the 1960s,

81
00:07:36,081 --> 00:07:42,199
and was just empty as you
see it on this old photo.

82
00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:46,539
In 2011 the government of Denmark

83
00:07:46,539 --> 00:07:53,193
won a lawsuit against Christiania.
That means that the free town was forced

84
00:07:53,193 --> 00:07:59,365
to follow the regulations of Denmark.
At the same time Christiania was declared

85
00:07:59,365 --> 00:08:04,884
legal, and that resulted in that
the local people in Christiania

86
00:08:04,884 --> 00:08:09,673
wanted to improve their
house standards much more

87
00:08:09,673 --> 00:08:15,403
than was used to before. So they put in
investments in our infrastructure

88
00:08:15,403 --> 00:08:20,823
and in our houses on a longer
time horizon; now we invest up to

89
00:08:20,823 --> 00:08:25,804
30 years in advance, and that’s the whole
difference than before, when it was just

90
00:08:25,804 --> 00:08:31,711
for 1 or 2 years people would
climb up something.

91
00:08:31,711 --> 00:08:40,789
The whole infrastructure
is changing in these years.

92
00:08:40,789 --> 00:08:46,409
Christiania is quite large.
It’s 46 years old,

93
00:08:46,409 --> 00:08:52,198
and it has almost 1.000 inhabitants.
Actually the 900 that you see here

94
00:08:52,198 --> 00:08:58,332
are the inhabitants that we know of.
But there are many people that just live

95
00:08:58,332 --> 00:09:03,693
there, without having a place to stay.
That means that they change rooms,

96
00:09:03,693 --> 00:09:09,008
they sleep on sofas, they kind of
roam around within the community.

97
00:09:09,008 --> 00:09:15,326
So there may well be a thousand, I don’t
know. There are at least 265 houses

98
00:09:15,326 --> 00:09:22,226
and 24 hectares of land.

99
00:09:22,226 --> 00:09:28,056
There is a heating construction.

100
00:09:28,056 --> 00:09:32,216
It’s a very easy kind of.

101
00:09:32,216 --> 00:09:36,098
You burn pellets. That’s it.
But when you extend this

102
00:09:36,098 --> 00:09:42,158
to larger systems it can be quite complex.

103
00:09:42,158 --> 00:09:46,582
The pellet burners are difficult to keep
in steady production. But they’re cheap

104
00:09:46,582 --> 00:09:51,507
and can be handled by the local users.
Special effort has been done

105
00:09:51,507 --> 00:09:57,054
to ensure that the heating system
keeps running smoothly all the time by

106
00:09:57,054 --> 00:10:03,701
constantly improving the heaters and the
steering units, that’s the left picture.

107
00:10:03,701 --> 00:10:08,001
You see: there are some yellow
add-ons on top and bottom

108
00:10:08,001 --> 00:10:16,256
and those are added-on to an existing
heating system that we have bought.

109
00:10:16,256 --> 00:10:20,967
We have added air pressure to ensure that
the ashes are blown away from the heaters’

110
00:10:20,967 --> 00:10:25,459
surface at regular intervals.
And that you can see on the left picture

111
00:10:25,459 --> 00:10:31,827
on the blue tubes. And we’re planning to
add scrubbers to clean the flue gas.

112
00:10:31,827 --> 00:10:37,598
That means you have…
when the smoke comes out of the chimney

113
00:10:37,598 --> 00:10:43,397
you have a problem with pollution, and we
want to take the pollution out of the gas.

114
00:10:43,397 --> 00:10:48,740
And this is yet to come but we’re
in the process of doing that as well.

115
00:10:48,740 --> 00:10:52,842
We’re now engaged in improving the
logging by the use of the Kamstrup meters

116
00:10:52,842 --> 00:10:58,365
you see in the center top picture
and use Raspberry Pi’s as well

117
00:10:58,365 --> 00:11:02,579
to monitor the steering units.
That’s the bottom picture.

118
00:11:02,579 --> 00:11:07,837
That’s coming out of a Raspberry
Pi. We are fortunate to have

119
00:11:07,837 --> 00:11:14,145
several LANs running inside
Christiania. Those we can use

120
00:11:14,145 --> 00:11:19,198
for propagating the samples and monitor
them, that’s the right picture here.

121
00:11:19,198 --> 00:11:26,576
So you see all these green points
are actually WiFi spots.

122
00:11:26,576 --> 00:11:31,714
A typical Nabovarme installation consists
of a heating production center,

123
00:11:31,714 --> 00:11:37,138
some heating consumers, some WiFi
infrastructure and a web portal used

124
00:11:37,138 --> 00:11:43,561
for plotting consumption and accounting.
Well, the back…

125
00:11:43,561 --> 00:11:49,061
when we started off the Kamstrup
solution meters, they were

126
00:11:49,061 --> 00:11:54,855
not very smart, they could
actually take care

127
00:11:54,855 --> 00:11:59,685
of the metering of consumers
but we in the city lack the ability

128
00:11:59,685 --> 00:12:04,968
to gather these samples for later
accounting. So the Kamstrup company

129
00:12:04,968 --> 00:12:10,007
had some solutions for smart metering
which supports multiple protocols:

130
00:12:10,007 --> 00:12:16,698
we have the Wireless M-Bus, the Zigbee
and many more protocols,

131
00:12:16,698 --> 00:12:22,760
but there was no WiFi.
That meant to us that investing

132
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:29,029
in a new infrastructure for just metering
was very costly and unnecessary.

133
00:12:29,029 --> 00:12:34,094
Their solutions required a new
infrastructure for propagation and

134
00:12:34,094 --> 00:12:38,797
data gathering and the need for
certified electricians to install it.

135
00:12:38,797 --> 00:12:44,500
The Kamstrup solutions also required a
subscription plan in order to gain access

136
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:51,141
to our own data and we
did not like that. So,

137
00:12:51,141 --> 00:12:57,621
nowadays, many people in Christiania

138
00:12:57,621 --> 00:13:03,073
have their own WiFi hotspots. Christiania
users are willing to open theirs

139
00:13:03,073 --> 00:13:07,333
to the heating meters and that is
a way to reduce the costs of having

140
00:13:07,333 --> 00:13:11,913
to manually read the meter, and
it’s a way to get through the WiFi

141
00:13:11,913 --> 00:13:17,223
up to our servers.

142
00:13:17,223 --> 00:13:22,555
When researching the existing open source
options from the Kamstrup to create

143
00:13:22,555 --> 00:13:27,934
a meter logger we ran across the ESP8266.

144
00:13:27,934 --> 00:13:33,293
That’s a microcontroller and when it first
came out it was small and cost effective

145
00:13:33,293 --> 00:13:39,684
enough to be inserted into the meters
and it had the WiFi capabilities

146
00:13:39,684 --> 00:13:44,414
to transmit the samples
over the existing infrastructure,

147
00:13:44,414 --> 00:13:48,895
that means all the WiFis
that you saw, the green points.

148
00:13:48,895 --> 00:13:55,259
Later, thanks to martin-ger’s ESP library
we were able to extend the coverage

149
00:13:55,259 --> 00:14:00,701
to places that lacked their own hot spots.
That means that we could hop in…

150
00:14:00,701 --> 00:14:08,651
that our meter solution could be like an
extra hot spot and transmit all the data

151
00:14:08,651 --> 00:14:18,061
through some of the heaters to the
next hot spot, and on to the servers.

152
00:14:18,061 --> 00:14:24,630
We created a daughter board

153
00:14:24,630 --> 00:14:30,940
to be inserted in the Kamstrup meters
consisting of the ESP8266

154
00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:36,060
with its flash and WiFi capabilities,
some triacs for controlling

155
00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:42,579
the external valve, you know, the valve
that can turn off and on for the consumers

156
00:14:42,579 --> 00:14:49,644
and a separate power supply unit to power
everything. And this picture that you see

157
00:14:49,644 --> 00:14:56,275
here is put into the living space of
the people that are attached to the

158
00:14:56,275 --> 00:15:06,080
Nabovarme system.
So everyone has one like this.

159
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:12,050
We had a problem. Because Kamstrup

160
00:15:12,050 --> 00:15:19,161
had an open source protocol, KMP, but
it was very difficult to read it and to

161
00:15:19,161 --> 00:15:24,790
read about it. It didn’t kind of work out,
and we had to spend a few months to

162
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:30,202
reverse-engineer a range of their devices
and they are now supported in our meter

163
00:15:30,202 --> 00:15:36,349
logger firmware. And
the meter logger firmware

164
00:15:36,349 --> 00:15:41,372
takes care of the net translations
for extending the WiFi,

165
00:15:41,372 --> 00:15:45,372
and through a grace period
during boot you’re able to set up

166
00:15:45,372 --> 00:15:51,309
a target access point to connect to.
That means that

167
00:15:51,309 --> 00:15:56,971
when you first set it up you find the WiFi
spots around, and you find the best one,

168
00:15:56,971 --> 00:16:02,796
and you log it into that one.
If you later need to change that

169
00:16:02,796 --> 00:16:07,035
you pass along with your own telephone
a special code, and then you can change

170
00:16:07,035 --> 00:16:12,435
that point again. That’s
a grace period, that’s just

171
00:16:12,435 --> 00:16:17,322
a minute or two, and that’s it.
So after that grace period it goes over

172
00:16:17,322 --> 00:16:24,184
to sample mode. The scheduler
asks the meter for a sample

173
00:16:24,184 --> 00:16:30,760
every minute. And the KMP
– the Kamstrup – requests

174
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:36,558
talks to the meter over serial, and
the KMP receives the data and does

175
00:16:36,558 --> 00:16:42,258
checksum before all
floating it to the MQTT.

176
00:16:42,258 --> 00:16:48,735
The MQTT dispatcher takes care of
transmitting the sample to the server.

177
00:16:48,735 --> 00:16:54,459
And then other part of the firmware closes
the hot water valve if the last sample

178
00:16:54,459 --> 00:17:00,292
resolves in excessive consumption based on
the readings from the user’s account.

179
00:17:00,292 --> 00:17:06,828
So this is how we can actually turn off
the user, or actually the thing does it

180
00:17:06,828 --> 00:17:12,678
automatically. If there’s no more
money on that account

181
00:17:12,678 --> 00:17:17,996
it automatically switches off. Like when
you go down and buy the log and put it

182
00:17:17,996 --> 00:17:24,945
into your existing old heater
it burns down. It’s cold.

183
00:17:24,945 --> 00:17:30,106
Same system. And that transparency
makes it easy for people

184
00:17:30,106 --> 00:17:36,974
to understand some of the…
Well, that’s it.

185
00:17:36,974 --> 00:17:42,806
Well.

186
00:17:42,806 --> 00:17:48,196
From the client side you have
the overview of a client. This is

187
00:17:48,196 --> 00:17:53,975
what the client sees of the production
and the use of Nabovarme.

188
00:17:53,975 --> 00:17:59,777
We have the propagation temperature

189
00:17:59,777 --> 00:18:05,227
and you have the return temperature,
you have the temperature difference

190
00:18:05,227 --> 00:18:10,047
and you have the flow
and you have the consumption.

191
00:18:10,047 --> 00:18:16,328
These five graphs you can zoom in
and just have it at 1 or 2 minutes

192
00:18:16,328 --> 00:18:20,005
or you can have it for a period like
you have from, here, 1st of January

193
00:18:20,005 --> 00:18:24,430
to the 5th of March. But you can
also have it for 2 years, 3 years

194
00:18:24,430 --> 00:18:30,176
or just 1 minute, 2 minutes.
So this is very easy for people

195
00:18:30,176 --> 00:18:35,695
to see how is there a usage,
when and how much

196
00:18:35,695 --> 00:18:41,655
do they actually spend.

197
00:18:41,655 --> 00:18:44,425
Now the accounting system.

198
00:18:44,425 --> 00:18:48,568
That’s one of the headaches for
everybody: how to get the money in.

199
00:18:48,568 --> 00:18:54,224
We want to supply, we want to share
but we need some money for the pellets.

200
00:18:54,224 --> 00:19:00,198
How do you do it? And first, of course,
you would just put it on a document

201
00:19:00,198 --> 00:19:05,208
on your computer,
“my neighbor has given me five crowns”

202
00:19:05,208 --> 00:19:10,492
– as we’d use in Denmark – or 10 Euros,
“this for the heating of the pellet

203
00:19:10,492 --> 00:19:15,115
from that day to that day”. Ok. And
when you have a lot of documents

204
00:19:15,115 --> 00:19:20,656
it makes it very difficult, of course.
So you would start with using Excel

205
00:19:20,656 --> 00:19:26,106
spreadsheets or, you know, Opendocs
spreadsheets, or whatever,

206
00:19:26,106 --> 00:19:32,077
you know. And in due time you find out
that’s complex too, it makes it difficult.

207
00:19:32,077 --> 00:19:36,657
So, then some good guys started making

208
00:19:36,657 --> 00:19:42,234
custom made applications. And this
is one of them, this is actually the

209
00:19:42,234 --> 00:19:47,482
latest application called CA
(means Christiania,

210
00:19:47,482 --> 00:19:52,632
FORBRUG means expenditure).
We’ve developed that

211
00:19:52,632 --> 00:19:57,442
over time and this is for electricity,
this is a red one,

212
00:19:57,442 --> 00:20:02,652
you see, and that means that it’s
electricity expenditure, and there is

213
00:20:02,652 --> 00:20:09,603
every year one, usually the consumer,
but also maybe the area cashier

214
00:20:09,603 --> 00:20:15,356
goes from house to house, takes the
number, and puts it into this accounting

215
00:20:15,356 --> 00:20:21,169
system. So you see there, some of them
are from 2006, some are from 2015

216
00:20:21,169 --> 00:20:28,127
– one is from ’15 and two is from 2017.
This is the expenditure of electricity.

217
00:20:28,127 --> 00:20:33,609
We want of course to do that
also for heat.

218
00:20:33,609 --> 00:20:39,336
And this is maybe possible but we
need some more people to help us

219
00:20:39,336 --> 00:20:46,176
doing that. So, all this require,
of course, individual consumption,

220
00:20:46,176 --> 00:20:50,987
total consumption and production
expenses to make this all work.

221
00:20:50,987 --> 00:20:56,328
And that is increasingly difficult to
handle. And, on top of that, users are

222
00:20:56,328 --> 00:21:02,370
more demanding. They want to know “how
much do I have in our little bank”, or

223
00:21:02,370 --> 00:21:09,463
“how much do I owe the little bank” or
“how can we actually balance things up”.

224
00:21:09,463 --> 00:21:13,823
And these data are of course very precious
to us, and we do not want to share them

225
00:21:13,823 --> 00:21:18,645
with large companies for anti-surveillance
reasons, and this is why we built up

226
00:21:18,645 --> 00:21:24,016
this whole infrastructure, to keep the
knowledge inside and to gain total access

227
00:21:24,016 --> 00:21:28,575
of it; but it’s a lot of work, I tell you.

228
00:21:28,575 --> 00:21:32,765
The last thing is, we need your help!

229
00:21:32,765 --> 00:21:38,675
We would love to get some
more help on how to improve

230
00:21:38,675 --> 00:21:44,105
things in our systems, and how to
cooperate with making the systems

231
00:21:44,105 --> 00:21:49,337
talk together. And we have,
on the left side of the stage,

232
00:21:49,337 --> 00:21:54,017
we have ‘Stoffer’ here, he’s our
busfactor, you know? If somebody

233
00:21:54,017 --> 00:21:59,691
from bus runs him down, the knowledge is
gone. What can we do, we need some more

234
00:21:59,691 --> 00:22:05,576
people knowing what is going on. Our
society is so small that we do not know

235
00:22:05,576 --> 00:22:11,514
what to do. If one person
disappears a lot of knowledge

236
00:22:11,514 --> 00:22:16,780
disappears with him. So this is
a serious problem for us. And then

237
00:22:16,780 --> 00:22:22,310
along, as well, is the demand for
the people that we are serving,

238
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:28,110
they want to know more and more
specific details on the consumption,

239
00:22:28,110 --> 00:22:33,503
the production, the energy, the economy.
It’s very difficult.

240
00:22:33,503 --> 00:22:38,990
On top of all these things we have installed
a lot of solar panels inside Christiania,

241
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:45,329
to stop using so much of electricity
that we buy, and getting down

242
00:22:45,329 --> 00:22:50,965
on buying the pellets. So all these
different consumption models,

243
00:22:50,965 --> 00:22:55,959
they coincide, and they need to
be balanced out, and we need

244
00:22:55,959 --> 00:23:01,869
to monitor them, to see how much do we
actually gain, how much do we lose.

245
00:23:01,869 --> 00:23:07,677
So please, if you have questions
– we have the problems

246
00:23:07,677 --> 00:23:13,969
and you can apply if you want to come work
with us at the ‘Christiania Researcher in

247
00:23:13,969 --> 00:23:18,659
Residence’ that is the house that we have
in Christiania, designed for people that

248
00:23:18,668 --> 00:23:25,317
want to know about Christiania, are going to
read or do something, some active sessions

249
00:23:25,317 --> 00:23:30,257
in Christiania. They can come and stay
with us for a month, or come back even,

250
00:23:30,257 --> 00:23:37,015
and get some interaction with Christiania.
So, thank you for your time,

251
00:23:37,015 --> 00:23:43,762
and I hope you have a lot of questions
that we will be glad to answer. Thank you.

252
00:23:43,762 --> 00:23:51,092
*applause*

253
00:23:51,092 --> 00:23:54,598
Herald: Thank you very much for the
presentation, Emmerik! So, as you have

254
00:23:54,598 --> 00:23:58,815
heard, we have around 5 minutes for
questions, and you have heard, they are

255
00:23:58,815 --> 00:24:04,638
in dire need of ideas, inspirations,
support and help. So

256
00:24:04,638 --> 00:24:07,972
line up at the microphones if you have
questions. I will start with the internet

257
00:24:07,972 --> 00:24:13,227
if there is a question from the internet.
Is that the case?

258
00:24:13,227 --> 00:24:14,724
Signal Angel: No questions yet.

259
00:24:14,724 --> 00:24:17,661
Herald: Alright, then we start
with microphone no. 6.

260
00:24:17,661 --> 00:24:20,684
Mic 6: Have you given any…
Herald: Please, yeah, perfect.

261
00:24:20,684 --> 00:24:23,979
Mic 6: Have you given any…
great talk by the way, thank you,

262
00:24:23,979 --> 00:24:28,771
is there any facts for the distribution
of pellets to be more efficient within,

263
00:24:28,771 --> 00:24:32,972
not just like the heating, and how does
the actual physical distribution of the

264
00:24:32,972 --> 00:24:36,624
pellets work, and is there any
automation ideas around that?

265
00:24:36,624 --> 00:24:39,973
Johannes: Right, …
Kristoffer: You got it?

266
00:24:39,973 --> 00:24:42,106
Johannes: We don’t have any sound
right now…

267
00:24:42,106 --> 00:24:47,386
Emmerik: I think we lack some sound
on Stoffer and on Johannes.

268
00:24:47,386 --> 00:24:52,466
Here is Stoffer. Could you say hello?
Kristoffer: Yes, I’m trying to! Hello?

269
00:24:52,466 --> 00:24:57,505
Herald: I think it’s on now!
Emmerik: It’s on, it just needs louder!

270
00:24:57,505 --> 00:25:01,277
Johannes: Yes, so right now we have…
Emmerik: Could you have the question again?

271
00:25:01,277 --> 00:25:04,847
Johannes: Yes, the question was if we are
using any automation for the pellet

272
00:25:04,847 --> 00:25:09,691
systems and the distribution of them.
Right now we have huge silos at each

273
00:25:09,691 --> 00:25:14,479
distribution center. So we kind of
just get a truck that comes in and,

274
00:25:14,479 --> 00:25:19,165
with pressured air, it just blows all the
pellets into these giant silos. Usually

275
00:25:19,165 --> 00:25:24,744
at these productions centers we then have
redundant heating production units,

276
00:25:24,744 --> 00:25:28,504
so if one of them goes down we
can switch to the other one.

277
00:25:28,504 --> 00:25:33,910
But when it comes to distribution
of costs then it is

278
00:25:33,910 --> 00:25:39,366
still small isolated communities that
consume their own pellets systems,

279
00:25:39,366 --> 00:25:43,424
so the budget of one small community
doesn’t go into the budget of another

280
00:25:43,424 --> 00:25:47,658
community. I hope that was
answering the question.

281
00:25:47,658 --> 00:25:50,555
Herald: Alright, microphone no. 1, please.

282
00:25:50,555 --> 00:25:55,865
Mic 1: Hi, thanks for the talk, from me
as well. I was wondering if, like…

283
00:25:55,865 --> 00:26:01,209
usually you say, first you do isolation
on the buildings and then

284
00:26:01,209 --> 00:26:05,966
you renew the heating systems. Did you do
that, because I… like from the photos,

285
00:26:05,966 --> 00:26:10,554
it seems like there’s a lot of old buildings,
and stuff. So that would be my first idea

286
00:26:10,554 --> 00:26:17,321
to lower the energy consumption
and then putting your system on.

287
00:26:17,321 --> 00:26:23,962
Emmerik: Thank you for… your question
looks like this, in here:

288
00:26:23,962 --> 00:26:29,329
first you should insulate your buildings,
and then you could add the heating system

289
00:26:29,329 --> 00:26:33,749
instead of the other way round.
Is that your question?

290
00:26:33,749 --> 00:26:37,832
Mic 1: Well, I was just wondering if
you, like just said, okay, we’re putting

291
00:26:37,832 --> 00:26:42,402
new heating systems, or we first try
to lower the consumption and

292
00:26:42,402 --> 00:26:46,412
then look for a new system
that, yeah, comes…

293
00:26:46,412 --> 00:26:53,753
Emmerik: The thing is that once you’re
poor, first you want to heat to survive.

294
00:26:53,753 --> 00:26:59,361
And then, when you survive, you just
suddenly find out there are ways that are

295
00:26:59,361 --> 00:27:04,016
smarter than the ones you thought of
before. So you find a house, you stay

296
00:27:04,016 --> 00:27:08,496
there, and you heat it. You don’t find
a house insulated and start heating,

297
00:27:08,497 --> 00:27:14,985
no. It’s the other way around. And this
tends to extend into many decades.

298
00:27:14,985 --> 00:27:19,812
So that we have a number of very, very old
houses, and they’re… some of them are

299
00:27:19,812 --> 00:27:26,151
heritage-restricted, and some of
them are just in very bad shape, and

300
00:27:26,151 --> 00:27:31,158
many squatters have been living there
before us, and they have not contributed

301
00:27:31,158 --> 00:27:37,758
to the betterment of the houses.
Right now, as in a new situation, as we

302
00:27:37,765 --> 00:27:44,650
are looking into eternity, I mean, we’re
staying here, we’re not being forced out

303
00:27:44,650 --> 00:27:51,133
by the police or anybody. So, we think
longer terms, we say, maybe people live

304
00:27:51,133 --> 00:27:56,501
for 5 years here, but they should
contribute to the roof that lasts 30 years

305
00:27:56,501 --> 00:28:00,893
and they should contribute to the
insulation that we need to have a better

306
00:28:00,893 --> 00:28:07,092
house in all thirty years. And this is a
plan that takes time and effort.

307
00:28:07,092 --> 00:28:13,412
And also needs to be propagated into
the mindset of people in Christiania.

308
00:28:13,412 --> 00:28:19,768
And not easy. So first you deliver
pellets, you give them heat, you find out

309
00:28:19,768 --> 00:28:24,733
how to avoid the pellets; and you give
them insulation to avoid the heat.

310
00:28:24,733 --> 00:28:27,089
This is the way it has been.

311
00:28:27,089 --> 00:28:28,299
Herald: All right think now…

312
00:28:28,299 --> 00:28:32,279
Emmerik: I think you have an
extra question? No, is that?

313
00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:35,998
Herald: Maybe you can just find the other
people who still have questions, we don’t

314
00:28:35,998 --> 00:28:39,582
have time for all the questions, and you
can just talk to them. Now I think it’s

315
00:28:39,582 --> 00:28:44,502
the internet’s turn to ask a question,
because they cannot find you afterwards.

316
00:28:44,502 --> 00:28:49,292
Signal Angel: Yes, the internet has some
questions. First question is: would it be

317
00:28:49,292 --> 00:28:53,515
possible to have some holiday
in Christiania and

318
00:28:53,515 --> 00:28:56,125
help you with your project?

319
00:28:56,125 --> 00:29:01,383
Johannes: Yes, yes, it would be
possible, very possible. So please

320
00:29:01,383 --> 00:29:06,919
come join us! You can apply through
this web address up here, crir.net.

321
00:29:06,919 --> 00:29:11,807
And you can stay there up to one month,
free of charge, of course while contributing.

322
00:29:11,807 --> 00:29:17,743
And we have a very low level of
documentation so a lot of human

323
00:29:17,743 --> 00:29:21,801
communication is needed, so you’re very
much welcome. Come and join us, and

324
00:29:21,801 --> 00:29:26,403
help us reduce the bus factor – he’s taking
the bus every day, we are just waiting

325
00:29:26,403 --> 00:29:29,734
for him to die! So come and
join us and help us!

326
00:29:29,734 --> 00:29:33,807
Herald: And I think on that note of the
extension of a very kind invitation to

327
00:29:33,807 --> 00:29:37,089
all of you to come and join them and
work with them, we have to close the talk.

328
00:29:37,089 --> 00:29:41,158
I saw you all people at microphones 1, 2
and 8 but unfortunately we don’t have

329
00:29:41,158 --> 00:29:45,083
any more time. But just come and find the
speakers after the talk, and discuss with

330
00:29:45,083 --> 00:29:48,334
them all the open questions you still
have. So please give another warm

331
00:29:48,334 --> 00:29:51,579
round of applause to Johannes,
Kristoffer and Emmerik!

332
00:29:51,579 --> 00:29:54,811
*applause*

333
00:29:54,811 --> 00:30:10,367
*postroll music*

334
00:30:10,367 --> 00:30:15,181
*subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
in the year 2018*
